An Interview with Roberts Liardon

By Mike Morrell

Hello Roberts.  Thank you for agreeing to this interview; I know that many first-time visitors to your site—as well as all those who have supported your life’s work over the years—are interested in the new things you’ve been up to. 

Well I’m glad to share.  There are some thrilling new projects that I want everyone to know about.

I’m interested to hear.  But first, I have to ask you something, Roberts.  You have been in the spotlight since you were a kid.  Do you ever feel like the Christian equivalent of the Olsen twins or Daniel Radcliffe?  

I do to some degree!  I’d love to see what I could do with all their money!  (Laughs) There is an element of that strangeness, growing up in the spotlight since I was a child. I did not know that I was that popular at all until I was older—I had no clue!  I just worked.  I probably began to recognize that I had some degree of popularity as my first two books became national bestsellers.  That’s when I realized—I’m reaching people!    

That must have been quite the rush for a teenager.

I have mixed emotions about it to honest.  I’m glad for my experiences growing up.  There are downsides, though.

Like what?

Everyday things, like not being able to eat a meal or watch a basketball game without being interrupted.  The strange thing about being popular is people assuming you know folks that you don’t now.  The fun thing about being popular is VIP treatment!  But it’s a double-edged sword. 

I can’t imagine how wonderful and terrible and…odd such an upbringing would be.  Perhaps one day you could compare notes with Mary-Kate and Ashley.

And Macaulay Culkin.

Him too!  Let’s zoom the lens out a bit from childhood and teen years and take a panoramic shot of your life.  What things have you done that you are the happiest about? 

Thanks for asking, Mike.  On reflection, I think that one of the most helpful things I’ve done is to truly engage the world around me, becoming a global citizen.  I left my home and culture to explore the world. This has been so enriching—it has given me a wealth of insight, and has broadened my view of the Christian message and life itself.  Being a world citizen is a lot more than being a tourist.  I don’t just visit people, I read about their scientific advancements, history, politics, religion, famous citizens and current events.  This helps me related more.  You really can’t help people unless you begin to understand them.

How has being a global citizen influenced your faith? 

I’ll give you a “for instance”:  I was raised in a USAmerican traditionalist Christian home.  This had many positive and nurturing aspects, but some of what we held as absolute was, in fact, influenced by culture.  For example, when I would speak in Europe after church, they all drank beer while I drank my Coca-Cola!   All of the alarms from my American “holiness” background went off—this was wrong!  And yet these were sincere followers of Jesus.  Drinking was a taboo for me, but some of these Christian leaders overseas enjoyed beer like we’d drink Iced Tea! 
As I entered many regions in the world I found that I would clash with people if I put my “cultural foot” forward; if, however, I respected their cultural differences and stuck to the “main and plain” of the Bible, we got along marvelously.  All of this helps me understand God’s grace.

There’s no tutor like life.  So, how extensively have you traveled? 

I’ve had the honor of traveling to over 100 nations, some of them many times. I’ve built 8 foreign offices.  I’ve been to certain places so many times that they think I’m a citizen! 

Is there any place that you have not been that you would like to go?

I would like to spend more time in the Middle East and North Africa.  I’ve had an attraction the Mediterranean/Middle Eastern culture for awhile.  I am interested in her rich history, as well as the great human need in the area.  I sense that I have a role there, and I would like to explore that calling.  I would even like to live there for part of my life.  Could the Lord cause this to happen? I think so.  I sense that God has given me favor in these areas.  I think God can trust me with different people because I have experienced their world.

What kind of work will you do when you get to these places?

I would like to be involved in humanitarian and educational work, as well as whatever spiritual contribution I could make. 

Do you have any experience doing this?

Actually yes—years ago, I established a Christian center called Embassy in Orange County, California. We trained and sent out over 250 families and individuals who spent a year or more of Christian and humanitarian services.   We sent men and women to places like Nepal, Mongolia, and Namibia.  We paid for all 250 of them and their families. 

You paid of all 250 of them?  How did you pull that off? 

Our partners, church family, and community businesses gave to do this. It was the most rewarding thing I have been a part of so far. The global change these compassionate saints made in the world is immeasurable.  We sent them to places other folks did not want to go, like Mongolia, and parts of Africa long abandoned by the Western imagination.  We served through the animating spirit of Christ—digging  wells, providing food and medicine.  We helped start AIDS prevention in some of the public schools of Namibia, Africa. We were the first to do that at that time.  Because of the need we’ve seen and the success we’ve had, we have created Global Compassion.   

I want to revisit this shortly.  What other ways have you been ‘thinking globally’?

Writing is another way that I like to affect parts of the global scene.  This is an area in life that has brought me immense satisfaction.  I have great joy in seeing my writings go around the world, helping many people that I may never get to meet in this life. My readers and I have a connection I treasure.  Their letters and kind words are so encouraging to me. I know that I will write for the rest of my life.  Seeing your books translated in over 50 languages is such a rewarding feeling—you walk into a bookstore in another country and there you are! 

For those who are not familiar, what sort of writing do you do?

All kinds, but most of my writing lately has either been books on effective leadership and what I’d call “spiritual self-help” writing, taken from personal experience and Bible-based realities.  Soon I’ll begin work on leadership biographies, starting with Winston Churchill and Israel’s first female prime minister, Golda Meir.  I’ve also been doing a lot of church history writing. 

Yes you have.  In fact, many people know you primarily through your God’s Generals book series and DVD series.  What they may not know is that a lot of the photographs and historical artifacts in this series come from your personal collection. 

That’s true.  Everybody has a “geek factor,” and mine is collecting historical memorabilia.  It has got to be one of the most interesting and enjoyable hobbies ever.  I call it my God's Generals Collection. I started building this collection of church history artifacts when I was 12 years old, and I have continued it to this day. I collect Christian historical items from the great leaders and revivals of church history.

What are some of the hallmarks of your collection?

Some of the gems include a handwritten letters from Martin Luther, John and Charles Wesley, a Billy Sunday baseball card and bat, Smith Wigglesworth’s piano, John Alexander Dowie’s pulpit chair, and Kathryn Kuhlman's purse, make-up kit, TV gowns, and passport.  I also have one of the largest photo and voice recording collections of these guys, dating back to an 1899 wax recording of DL Moody. 

That’s quite a collection.  What do you do with it all? 

I want to see these pieces of history preserved for generations to come. Sharing their books, messages, photos, and voice recordings keeps their some part of their grace and anointing alive for us today to learn from and enjoy in many ways. This is an integral part of my life—I love it.  Some people collect baseball cards—I collect Christian leaders!  The scope of this is expanding as my vision of God’s Kingdom is enlarging…my collection now expands to leaders in politics and social justice as well.  I share many of my latest discoveries on GodsGenerals.com.    

What is your all-time bestselling series?

Oh, without a doubt it would be God’s Generals.  We’ve sold over a million DVDs in the series, and the books in circulation have reached close to a million.  I plan to write a total of twelve volumes—the best is yet to come!

Why do you think these have stuck such a chord?  What’s makes this series so successful?

Three things come to mind.  The first thing is, in the portion of the Christian family I belong to—the Pentecostal and charismatic world—you couldn’t find decent biographies like you could in other streams of the Christian faith.  I wanted to raise the bar in historical research and communication for these people.  It took me ten years to write volume one—tracking down artifacts and establishing relationships with the families.  A lot of this research has to be conducted from ground zero.  The second thing that makes this series resonate so much with people is that I tell readers about these people fully without being judgmental.  .  I tell you everything, warts and all.  Many Christian biographies gloss over people’s flaws, but I can’t do that.  The Bible doesn’t do that!  God is the God of second and third chances; God is full of grace even when God’s people aren’t.  The third thing is, I make it easy to read…I tell a story.  One of the messages of the Generals series is if these people can serve God, so can you.  There’s hope for you!  And I don’t write this for some Ivory Tower academic; I write for everyday people—regular working men and women who love God and want something good to read. 

I agree—writing quality biographies about imperfect people animated by the Holy Spirit for everyday people is a unique combination.  I’m curious—do you see yourself through this lens? 

Oh absolutely.

What life-lessons can people learn from your “warts”? 

We all want people to see the motives of our hearts, but the fact is people see our actions.  Only God can see our hearts.  I have made my mistakes, many of them on a public level.  I have made public and private mistakes that I wish with all my heart that I haven’t. 

Like what? 

I hate it when I let people down who trust me in some way.  As a leader, it is difficult to always be on target. Sometimes you make mistakes that cause pain in others’ lives.  At worst, it can cause them to come to a standstill in life, and this is truly regrettable. 

So what do we do with this?  When we fail, how do we move on? 

Before I leave this earth, I’ll probably make many more mistakes, both public and private. But I refuse to allow my mistakes to deviate me from what I believe that I have been purposed to do; I have learned from my mistakes in this way:  I take the principle out of the drama, and leave the emotional pain behind me. 

Can you identify any common reasons why some of the Generals have failed?

Exhaustion is one of the main reasons I think.  They work beyond the capacity of their physical and mental abilities; in the midst of this stressful time, they are susceptible to temptation or poor decisions.  That’s why US President _____ had a policy of not making any decisions after 2:00 in the afternoon.  There’s also something I call The Arrogance Factor this can be an overt messiah complex or a more subtle form—some people shoulder the weight of the world on their shoulders, believing that they are one of the only people that can do what they’re doing on the earth.  Sometimes people feel the weight of their call so much that apparently God can’t get along without them!  The final thing that comes to mind is a lack of priorities. Many ministers suffer in relationship with their families and children.  Why?  They’ve tiered their values so that their families come last.  Our lives should be God, family, ministry and not any other order.  If ministry needs to come first, you shouldn’t get married!  The apostle Paul said that. 

On a more positive note, can you identify any common reasons why some of the Generals have succeeded?

Sure.  They believe that God is living and active, and wants to work goodness in people’s lives today.  He is very much the God right now, not just the past.
They believe unquestionably that they are supposed to be doing what they’re doing.  They’re sold on their destiny; neither purpose nor circumstance deviate them from their chosen path.  Finally, they build a core group of people around them that become a lifelong team.  Many people build on shifting sands as far as friends and team members go.  It’s worth investing in lasting relationships. 

Looking forward to what’s to come, what are your passions in life?

I don’t know that I think of them as “passions;” probably more of my mission—no, that sounds too religious!  At the end of the day, I am motivated by a vision and a calling on my life to love God by loving other people—through serving the human family.  I want to keep learning.  When one stops reading and asking questions, ignorance takes root. 

What are some learning areas you’re exploring now? 

I would like to continue writing and public speaking, and build a successful humanitarian organization, which has begun in its baby form in Global Compassion.  I love hearing stories of how the human spirit wins over difficult and impossible situations, like Winston Churchill thinking his life is over, then at age 65 discovering a whole new destiny in his life as a statesman. Or Nelson Mandela, spending 27 years imprisoned in his native South Africa only to come out, not hating, and leading his people unified to a new day.  That is a “wow” for me. 

How do these stories inspire you, personally? 

Basically they fuel my love for building organizations, creating them out of nothing more than an originating thought.  Then the group takes on a life of its own, and begins germinating…moving from an organization to an organism. 

This is why you’re so keen to get Global Compassion off the ground. 

It is!  I love meeting new people and experiencing other people’s lifestyles and thoughts.  I love continuing my world citizenship. 

You know, a repeated line from the movie “Vanilla Sky” keeps coming to me— “without the sour, the sweet is not so sweet.”  I think that’s very true in our human experience.  Surely all of these “sweet” moments and accomplishments in your life have been tempered and informed by the sour.  Can you tell us about that?  

The sad decline of my Grandmother's health was one of my life’s most painful times.  I cannot forget the day she no longer knew me and was scared of my voice. The day I first suspected something was wrong was one afternoon when I took her to a restaurant to eat; she could not remember what to order even after I had helped her twice.

That’s terrible.  What happened?

Shortly thereafter, she would be crying and say something is wrong but she did not know what it was.  We did not either; it was only after having a specialist flown in that the grim news was known:  she had dementia.  It was like President Reagan’s family’s experience—the long goodbye.  Over the course of six years, she slowly became bed ridden; we had her under 24 hour care with home nursing that was in my mother’s house.  Why would God let this happen to her?  Why didn’t God heal her or take her to heaven?  This is still a hard thing for me now. When she died, I led the funeral. I remember leaving the grave site not with sadness but relief. I don’t want anyone else to go through what my grandmother had to go through.  This is one of the reasons why, as a Christian leader, I support genetic research that will help eradicate this kind of disease.

I have to say, it’s refreshing to hear a Christian minister open up about questions he has for God as well as support for scientific research. 

I’m glad you mention that, because I want to be perfectly clear to anyone who is reading this:  I am a follower of Jesus, but I’m not necessarily a follower of Christianity.  I think there is oftentimes a big difference between the two.  Jesus allows questions; Jesus allows exploration.  Oftentimes, Christianity does not. 

That is a helpful distinction.  So many people hold the two as one and the same.

Tell me about it.  You know, I’d have to say that another major area of disappointment in my life would be the legalism and approved bigotry of large pockets of the Christian faith. I grow up in a very conservative background that I thought was good and correct in all respects. When I began traveling around the world helping people, my heart was pulled to offer whatever assistance I could, but not judge people no matter their story. In the Christian community I was told that I was wrong for such mercy and had to get back in line. “They’re just reaping what they’ve sowed,” I was told.  “It’s the life that you get when you reject Christ.”  Such horrible words spoken in the name of the One who redeems us all regardless of what we “deserve.” 

Ugh.  That is awful. 

Yes, and I’m ashamed to say that I bought into some of this self-righteous rhetoric for a spell, but my heart and family influence would win out.  I hate this attitude of justified neglect, and the use of Scriptures to defend it.  Thankfully, this has not been my experience with all Christian communities, and I continue to network with a growing number of people faithful to Jesus’ uncompromising love. 
Okay, last one and I’m through venting! 

I think this transparency is good.

Okay.  Well, I am disappointed that I feel like I’ve had to spend so much of my life and energy "on guard" from jealous, hostile, and undermining people.  My self-protection has kept me from a lot of good friends and experiences, I think. I suppose some would say this is the price of success and a high profile, but I wish it weren’t so.  We’re all learning though; I am learning to be more open despite it all.     

I know this openness will be appreciated by true friends.  In the spirit of openness, tell us:  What would you like people to know about you, personally?

I enjoy everyday life as much as the big days. You can be anywhere in the world – a breathtaking museum or the most awesome beach—and not have any fun.  It is not where you are but who you are and enjoying who you’re with is what counts in making life enriching. I like making friends with all kinds of people no matter who or what they may be. Everyone has a significant uniqueness to them. I will not let others pick my friends for me. In religion, they always like to tell you who you can befriend and accept into your life, but it is not their position to do so. I want to be like Jesus—friends with all classes and kinds of people. 

Are there any instances from your past where this comes to mind? 

Oh, definitely.  This one time, for instance, I was preaching at a Hungarian church—it was a gathering of many Hungarian ministers; this was during the days of Communism there—a bona fide underground church.  One thing I noticed when I was sharing with them was that there was a significant social/ethnic group missing—no gypsies!  “Where are all the gypsies?”  I asked one of the pastors later at a luncheon.  I had heard about the gypsies’ bold faith under Communist persecution, and I was looking forward to meeting them. 

So where were they?

It turned out they were confined to the balcony during the church gathering, while the other Hungarians could move freely on the main floor.  And now that we were eating, they were sitting outside.  It was like segregation.  The pastor I was speaking to explained, “We don’t sit with the gypsies.”  Instead, they made this class of people listen from afar.  Here you had this underground church where they were all being persecuted by the state, but there was still racism.  Incredible.  I think ethnic relations have improved in the church there since that time, but it was a sobering reminder of how we can all be if we don’t let God’s heart for all peoples soften ours.

What did you do that day?

I went outside!  I took my lunch and excused myself, and then sat with the gypsies.  They were more fun anyway.

Anything else you’re passionate about? 

I feel the pain people are in, and would like to do more to help. I have many questions for God when I see Him face to face. Why are not the hurting healed faster, the impoverished lifted up more by his power, and why are his children so hostile to one another? I just don’t get it sometimes. Sometimes I feel like I would like to walk away from religion once and for all and live a life free from hostile and judgmental Christians. 

I hear you.  On the positive side, what gives you the most hope in the present, and for the future?

My grandmother and mother have always told me “the truth outlives the lies.”  This has helped me in keeping my confidence going and motivation strong at times when life has looked bleakest.

The slowest organization for change is the church, especially if it has to admit to being the problem. It is so frustrating sometimes. But as a historian, I know a fact about the church—she will self-correct and slowly make changes for the better. Change can come so slow that that many are hurt in the process sometimes. Perhaps with the exponential growth in communications technology change will be faster in the Body of Christ these coming years.  The great hope I see is that the world is becoming more educated.  Prejudice, bigotry, and ignorance are steadily being consumed in the fire of knowledge and love.  

How can interested people come alongside you in what you’re doing?   

By joining hearts and hands to build Global Compassion, my new humanitarian organization. Become a partner in the work to help spread Christian kindness and humanitarian help to people that we are touching.  You can support this work monthly or through a one-time donation.  Also, check out my books and DVDs, where I’ve shared some of the lessons God and life have deposited in my spirit.